Interviews With Hinterland/Music

My Lulu.com order has been updated to shipped so hopefully it will arrive in time now. However, when I checked my email today it said I had received a response from Hinterland. It says it was sent on 20th August, just a few hours after I sent my order to Lulu. It then appeared in my inbox about 3 times so I think they must've had some trouble with servers or something. So unfortunately, I can't include it in the book, which is such a shame because Scott has answered these so thoroughly! The things hes written are very interesting so I suppose it benefits me anyway. I will post it here instead. I've also received an email from Music today asking if I still want it doing, so I've not got the answers but at least they've responded.

Here is my interview with Scott from Hinterland:

1) What first made you interested in graphic design, in particular typography and layout?
To be quite honest, growing up I had absolutely no concept of graphicdesign as a career. Around the age of 12 I created a logo for a local snowboard shop. The name of the shop was Eastern Snowboard Supplies. All I wanted to do was draw a guy on on a snowboard with the initials for the shop 'ESS' on the bottom of the board. The owner insisted I include the entire name; the phone number and it all must fit in a circle for printing purposes when making stickers. I guess that was my first unintentional experience with graphic design.

2) How did you start out in graphic design, and get yourself noticed in the industry?
After graduating from High School I hopped around a bit attending a few universities before I landed at School of Visual Arts in New York City. After a foundation year in design I had only a very basic understanding of design but I found work at a small design studio in Italy for a few months (Hand Made Group) mostly working on newsletters, brochure and clothing labels for textile companies. After I returned to NYC I had to enroll in my 3rd year classes at SVA. Almost all the professors who teach there are working professionals in the design field so I searched out the ones with the best reputations and enrolled in their classes. I landed a class with the extremely talented Carin Goldberg and that is essentially where my 'design career' began. She helped me land an internship with Abbott Miller, a partner at Pentagram, which then led to a full-time position with another partner there, Woody Pirtle. I spent 2 years at Pentagram then I moved on to work on a magazine launch after which I founded Hinterland in 2003.

3) What does an average day consist of for you?
I definitely have a daily routine. I get into the office early before everyone else when it is still quiet. First I put on my slippers (we all wear MUJI slippers here, a uniform of sorts... comfort is king), make an espresso, read the news online, answer emails, and maybe peruse a few blogs before tackling the 2-do list for the day.

4) Who/What has been your inspiration for your design work?
Big studios, small studios, and greats from design history and present-day talents... the list is endless. A small sampling would be: Lester Beall, Paul Rand, Josef Muller-Brockmann, Chermayeff Geismar, Herb Lubalin, Josef Frank, Dick Bruna, John Gall, Chip Kidd, Abbott Miller, Luke Hayman, Vince Frost, etc

5) How much does budget play a part in your design process?
There are three basic ways to look at a budget. Good work / Bad pay, Bad work / Good pay, and Good work / Good pay (there is always a fourth option that is an obvious NO... Bad work / Bad pay). Every studio has to entertain these options at various points but the right balance must be found.

6) How important is the cover of a publication as opposed to the design of the inner spreads?
They are both equally important from a design perspective but if you were to ask a person on the sales side of a magazine they would most likely say the cover would be the most important. In a traditional sense a magazine is to be purchased on a newsstand. All sorts of criteria must be taken into account when the magazine is displayed; logo placement, cover lines, UPC Symbol, etc.

7) When you develop a design, in what order do you undertake a project and
then in which order do you work?
Research, Research, Research, Write, and Design. The more informed you are when designing the greater possibility of an outcome that will satisfy the end user and client. Designing is like an equation in mathematics except that 2 + 2 does not equal 4, that would be too simple. Instead we end up with Form + Content equals the 'Finished Product'.

8) What attributes should a good layout have and why?
Essentially it should never be form over function. Editorial design should not be decoration. When designing a page we must keep in mind formal elements such as scale, color, texture, image placement, etc. but never forget the content we are working with which provides the designer with multiple puzzle pieces to use... a well written Hed, Dek, Drop Caps, Intro, Body copy, Captions, Pull Quotes, Folios, Headers, Footers, etc. The more points of entry on a page the more opportunity the designer has to engage and excite the reader.

9) What considerations need to be made when developing a layout for
editorial design?
I guess you can refer to questions 6 and 8 for the answers. I don't think I can add much more.

10) Which publications do you think are particularly well designed?
Present publications... WIRED, Work, 2wice, Monocle, Frame, New York Times, Sunday Magazine, BIG, etc.
Past Publications... LIFE, The FACE, Grafik, Avante Garde, etc.

11) Where do you see editorial design heading in the future?
One word... IPAD.

Even though I love the printed page and the smell of fresh ink right from the press it does seem to be an important piece of technology. It may not kill the printed magazine but the way the reader experiences editorial content will change and these changes will definitely be incorporated into a printed piece in the future.

12) Anything else you’d like to add, or any other advice you could give to a budding designer?
Cliché as it may sound. Love what you do, do what you love... Ignore the paycheck (for a bit that is)

Interview With Mike Brough

My interview with Mike Brough, creative director of Fusion in Darlington:

1) What first made you interested in graphic design, in particular typography and layout?
Not a great interest until I went to art college to be honest, but the biggest influence was when I started work at the northern echo newspaper as an editorial artist and typography became instant - a mac! I realised that to use it properly some training was required - there was a great typographer called Bob James - google him - who helped me greatly on one of his training courses.

2) How did you start out in graphic design, and get yourself noticed in the industry?
Not sure how 'noticed' I am but I started after art college - Chelsea then St martins - by doing crappy artwork jobs, then a stint at a marketing agency then freelance followed by the northern echo. I then became design development manager at Prontaprint head office - my job was to elevate design within the company. They moved and I set up Fusion some 13 years ago.

3) What does an average day consist of for you?
Hands on design; managing a couple of other designers; planning future work; checking artwork and liaison with clients - usually via email

4) Who/What has been your inspiration for your design work?
Many influences - I loved illustration at college but it wasn't my forte - I liked peter Blake in particular. I still enjoy looking at magazine and newspaper layouts

5) How much does budget play a part in your design process?
A great deal - we need to make a living and keep people employed

6) How important is the cover of a publication as opposed to the design of the inner spreads?
Both important but I guess the cover us the window and if you don't set the right tone for the audience you may fail to attract a viewer!

7) When you develop a design, in what order do you undertake a project and then in which order do you work?
I start on the front page but jump around the different sections if it's a newspaper to build a set of different but related styles for the publication

8) What attributes should a good layout have and why?
Difficult to answer this, for instance The Sun is a great product - hits the right notes for its marketplace, but the same could be said for the Times! I guess both need to be readable and legible and need to keep the reader's interest for as long as possible - the Sun will be busy and bitty and the times will have longer in-depth reads.

9) What considerations need to be made when developing a layout for editorial design?
As above

10) Which publications do you think are particularly well designed?
As above.

11) Where do you see editorial design heading in the future?
Ipad, smartphones and kindle plus online will change things massively, but I hope the paper version hangs around a bit longer

12) Anything else you’d like to add, or any other advice you could give to a budding designer?
Look at newspapers, magazines and other sources of print, as well as online versions as often as you can. Read the design press, visit art galleries and museums, learn the software inside out, especially the type tools and keep an open mind

Interview With Holger Jacobs

My interview with Holger Jacobs from Mind Design in London:

1) What first made you interested in graphic design, in particular typography and layout?
I was a punk rocker and wanted to study painting at the art academy in Düsseldorf (Germany) because a lot of other punks were messing around there and were doing wild things. However, they didn't accept me because my work was too clean and organised. So I got into graphic design and typography where I could do clean and organised things.

2) How did you start out in graphic design, and get yourself noticed in the industry?
After the RCA I wanted to go to Japan. I would have taken any job there but I was lucky and managed to get a job as the art director in a large publishing company more less by coincidence. After returning from japan I continued designing books but tried very hard to do projects in other areas of design as well. Now we mostly do corporate identity projects which combine everything from print to web, to interior design. Our work has been shown in quite a few magazines, books and on blogs. I guess there is a certain snowball effect, once you are in one or two publications others follow.

3) What does an average day consist of for you?
answering e-mails. They never stop coming.

4) Who/What has been your inspiration for your design work?
Friends and people I worked with. Mostly from Switzerland. Art Deco. The work for the Mexico Olympics by Lance Wyman. A lot of inspiration also comes from the printing process and various other production processes.

5) How much does budget play a part in your design process?
It should play a far bigger role than it does. We never really time our work to the budget. We just work until we are happy with the result. Maybe thats why we are so broke.

6) How important is the cover of a publication as opposed to the design of the inner spreads?
The Marketing people always think its the most important thing. I disagree with that.

7) When you develop a design, in what order do you undertake a project and then in which order do you work?
I think of the printing or production method first. Then I start structuring and organising the content. The actual design comes very late and can be based on rather spontaneous ideas or random influences. I almost design backwards.

8) What attributes should a good layout have and why?
It really depends on the content. In some publications the layout should just serve the content and communicate it as good as possible. In other publication the layout can be more expressive and become content in itself. However, there are some basic typographic rules that should be followed in both cases.

9) What considerations need to be made when developing a layout for editorial design?
See above. There are practical reasons as well. Especially with books. Books are usually paid quite badly so it is important to develop a grid and a system that allows you to design a book relatively fast. I used to be very good at designing very functional grids. One of the important things was when there were standard picture sizes to start developing the grid based on those.

10) Which publications do you think are particularly well designed?
I think most Swiss books are very well designed.

11) Where do you see editorial design heading in the future?
The death of print has been predicted too many times. I think print design will always be there. An i-pad just doesn't have the same smell as freshly printed uncoated paper.

12) Anything else you’d like to add, or any other advice you could give to a budding designer?
If you want to earn money don't become a book designer. If you want to learn about design that will help you in all other areas as well then do.

Interview With Axel Feldmann

My interview with Axel Feldmann, founder of Objectif in London:

1) What first made you interested in graphic design, in particular typography and layout?
Natural interest in illustration and printed matter. The college i went to (Schwäbisch Gmünd, Germany) had a huge amount of influence on the way i think about design, although being far too dogmatic.

2) How did you start out in graphic design, and get yourself noticed in the industry?
worked in many different small design studios across europe, before setting up on my own.

3) What does an average day consist of for you?
25%-50% administrative, 75%-50% design

4) Who/What has been your inspiration for your design work?
many inspirations from many people. no particular style/ideology, but whatever is appropriate for the specific content

5) How much does budget play a part in your design process?
a lot. usually working with small budgets (arts/culture) and therefore having to find cheap but nice solutions

6) How important is the cover of a publication as opposed to the design of the inner spreads?
extremely important, unfortunately

7) When you develop a design, in what order do you undertake a project and then in which order do you work?
consultation with client to extract the brief from him/her. close collaboration on the design development. quick turnaround once he concept is established.

8) What attributes should a good layout have and why?
follow the content, over and over again.

9) What considerations need to be made when developing a layout for editorial design?
follow the content, over and over again.

10) Which publications do you think are particularly well designed?
sorry, have to pass - will take me too long now to assemble a list

11) Where do you see editorial design heading in the future?
i'm positive about it - books aren't going to die out. magazines will, eventually

12) Anything else you’d like to add, or any other advice you could give to a budding designer?
keep going...

Interview With Thom Bennett

My interview with Thom Bennett, a graphic designer from Otley:

1) What first made you interested in graphic design, in particular typography and layout?
I was always interested in art and design from an early age - especially technical drawing. Further on, after having worked in agencies for a few years, I began to appreciate the power and simplicity of well structured layouts combined with great use of typography.

2) How did you start out in graphic design, and get yourself noticed in the industry?
I started out in graphic design by doing an A'level in art and design - this led me through education and a job a a print house. I got noticed in the industry through the internet and good publicity of my online portfolio.

To be continued...

Interview With David Bailey

My interview with David Bailey, creative director of Kiosk, Sheffield and ex-Designers Republic:

1) What first made you interested in graphic design, in particular typography and layout?
I was never interested in typography or layout initially. I was interested in exciting image-lead communication. The type and layout just came with the territory.

I did gain an interest in typography though. My early influences being as diverse as Josef Muller-Brockmann, David Carson, Tomato, and The Designers Republic.

2) How did you start out in graphic design, and get yourself noticed in the industry?
I ran a clubnight in Sheffield with a group of designers/artists/DJs. I would do illustrations for the flyers, which were then artworked up by one of the
designers. Whilst they looked nice, I felt I wanted a stab at composing the final design/layout. So I bought myself a Mac and taught myself how to use Freehand and Photoshop.

During this time I got to know fellow Sheffielder Ian Anderson (owner/director of
The Designers Republic). He encouraged me to pursue my design interests further. I undertook an HND in graphic design and wound up being employed by The Designers Republic.

3) What does an average day consist of for you?
• 60% business matters/correspondence etc
• 38% design time
• 2% lunch.

4) Who/What has been your inspiration for your design work?
Anything and everything. No restrictions, no definitions, no rules.
Just ideas and communication.

5) How much does budget play a part in your design process?
We try to treat every commission, be it well paid, low paid or zero pay, with equal importance. However, studio time and 'working smart' often must play a part in how much time we allot each project. Therefore mental pre-planning is key.

6) How important is the cover of a publication as opposed to the design of the inner spreads?
Both are as important as each other, but have different duties to fulfill.
A cover must draw an audience in. The inner spreads must keep them there.

7) When you develop a design, in what order do you undertake a project and then in which order do you work?
1. Switch on brain
2. Sketch ideas (sometimes)
3. Switch on computer
4. Design

8) What attributes should a good layout have and why?
Contrast and space. If everything were the same size and spaced equally we'd get bored, walk away, and thus learn nothing. Good editorial design should be influenced by good editorial content.

9) What considerations need to be made when developing a layout for editorial design?
The audience.

10) Which publications do you think are particularly well designed?
Monocle (magazine)
The Guardian

11) Where do you see editorial design heading in the future?
Everywhere, thanks to mobile devices.

12) Anything else you’d like to add, or any other advice you could give to a budding designer?
Have fun. Have a plan B.
;-)

Interview With Matt Austin

My interview with Matt Austin, creative director of Vast, Leeds:

1) What first made you interested in graphic design, in particular typography and layout?
I’ve always had an art interest, but more the structure in type and layout that graphic design offers, rather than an illustrative art route. I was inspired by the likes of Carson, Brody, Spirale, Brockmann, Atler from the Bauhaus movements and also architectural and furniture design by the earlier European pioneers.

2) How did you start out in graphic design, and get yourself noticed in the industry?
Started out working for the Attik in Huddersfield, and after 3 years set up my first agency with my business partner. VAST was formed in 2002.

3) What does an average day consist of for you?
Now, its very much about running and developing the business. I personally develop the fashion side, where I art direct the photography and concept the ideas for our clients marketing objectives.

4) Who/What has been your inspiration for your design work?
As question 1 with regards specific designers, but photography is now a big part of my inspiration for projects and how the two marry together.

5) How much does budget play a part in your design process?
We always create solutions within our clients budgets, but push format, design, layout and production as much as we can within that structure. That’s what gives our clients the edge - we maximise the impact of the budget at hand.

6) How important is the cover of a publication as opposed to the design of the inner spreads?
Image is everything.

7) When you develop a design, in what order do you undertake a project and then in which order do you work?
With regards client work, its always initially based on their needs and objectives, they then rely on us to maximise whatever we are asked to create. We start with the look and feel, and look through the extensive research material we have in the studio. We’ll also look at models and possible locations, and then present all this to the client. Once they are happy, we will then develop design concepts for that job, a look book, website, in-store concepts etc... Once this is agreed, we then commission the photography and create the story. After the shots are selected, the finished design are then completed and delivered in whatever format we are creating for that specific client.

With regards Shufti, we do whatever we want to showcase what we can do as an agency - no boundaries here.

8) What attributes should a good layout have and why?
You need to articulate to the customer/reader what you are selling or what story you are telling. A layout that doesn’t communicate this fails on both fronts.

9) What considerations need to be made when developing a layout for editorial design?
Editorial design is about telling a story, which is what Shufti is about. Creativity and imagination is all that matters here.

10) Which publications do you think are particularly well designed?
Monocle, Inventory, The Rake, Esquire, Wallpaper etc...

11) Where do you see editorial design heading in the future?
I see more value in offering the reader something  different, but still associated to the lifestyles people are leading. So it may be different formats, which is what we try and do with Shufti and exploring different photographic and production techniques. The content needs relating back to reality, no matter how tenuous this may be.

12) Anything else you’d like to add, or any other advice you could give to a budding designer?
Be different and push yourself. Look back and explore how designers approached things when there wasn’t a Mac, and understand the basics. Students rely too much on what a Mac can do, it should be used as an aid to maximise your idea.

Interview With Ken Leung

From: http://grainedit.com/2009/09/22/ken-leung-interview/

Being a fan of Monocle magazine, I’m excited about our next guest. Ken Leung is a London based freelance designer who helped launch Monocle magazine and until recently served as it’s art director. In today’s interview, Ken shares his love for Textas (marker pens), some of his influences and a few of his favorite books.
Ok, here we go..


Where are you from originally?
I was born in Kuala Lumpur but my family moved to Perth when I was two months old, so I am very much an Australian.

When and how did you come to be interested in graphic design?
I was rarely without my Textas (marker pens) as a kid and I remember spending hours drawing the logos of my favourite brands onto reams of computer paper. By the age of 10, I had pretty much memorized most of the well known corporate identities.

Who or what are your influences?
My bookshelves are mainly filled with monographs of all the great modernist graphic designers and typographers. I am also influenced from other areas like music, architecture and film as I think it helps to bring a fresh perspective to my work. I get just as inspired by the beauty and simplicity of a Mogwai track as I do from a Jost Hochuli book.

What was your first design job?
I started off as a newspaper designer straight out of university which taught me how to work to very tight deadlines. It also got me really interested in editorial design even though at the time I was being advised to go into web as print was supposedly dying. I am so glad I stayed with print as I think newspapers and magazines will always be an important source of information and entertainment.


How did you get involved with Monocle?
There were a handful of creative agencies that I really wanted to work for when I first moved to London. Winkreative was at the top of my list because of its editorial background (being owned by Tyler Brûlé from Wallpaper*), as well an amazing body of corporate identity work like Stella McCartney, Craft Design Technology and Swiss Airlines. I worked with them on a variety of editorial and branding projects until Tyler started Monocle and I was brought on to work on the launch in late 2006.

Monocle’s layout is built upon a rigid grid based structure. What led you to head in that direction?
Monocle’s design philosophy is an unquestionable nod to Swiss graphic design. The Brockmann-style grids provide a strong foundation to begin building and designing a page in the most legible and concise way possible. Using such a strict grid also enforces restraint, which, in my opinion is where the most interesting design comes from.

Illustration by Lab Partners.
I notice many of the illustrators you collaborate with for Monocle have a similar aesthetic. Could explain your selection process?
I choose illustrators that display a sense of craftmanship and detail in their work. They should have confident styles that aren’t based on trends or an over-reliance of technology. A sense of wit never goes astray either.
If you had to recommend 2 books to another designer what would they be?
“Grid Systems in Graphic Design” by Josef Müller-Brockmann is a great reference for designing with grids. I also love the Japanese design magazine IDEA that produces comprehensive monographs of famous designers every issue.

What are you currently working on?
After Art Directing 25 issues of Monocle I have just gone freelance to concentrate on independent work. Currently, I’m focusing on a couple of editorial projects in New York so hopefully you’ll see more of my work on newsstands soon.

Interview With Antonio Carusone

The last interview I did for my dissertation was with Antonio Carusone, a graphic designer from New York and the owner of TheGridSystem.org website, a great resource for all things to do with the grid:

Name
Antonio Carusone

Date Of Birth
1979

Location
New York City

Occupation
Associate Creative Director

Can you provide me with some of your professional/educational background details?
I studied art & design from High School on and I've mainly worked in large
advertising agencies.

Do you remember the first time you encountered grids?
It was when I worked at Big Spaceship. The two Art Directors there were Swedish and they put on a little show and tell session about grids.

Were you taught grids during your design education or were they something you sought out yourself?
In High School and College I mainly studied Computer Animation so I wasn't exposed to many graphic design methods. It wasn't until later on in my career that I discovered grids.

How did they make you feel/what did you think of them?
I was amazed by grids. I used to feel that I was missing something in my designs. I used to "eye" everything and that just didn't feel right to me. When I discovered grids it all made sense and I finally found a solid foundation for my designs.

There are lots of people who like/dislike grids, where do you stand now and why?
I love grids. I think they're essential to any successful design. People who dislike grids don't understand how to use them.

Do you think that the grid is an elitist design tool?
Absolutely not. It's an essential tool for any designer.

From a graphic design point of view do you feel that grids aid or stifle communication and why?
They aid communication because they create a solid foundation for the designs, in turn improving the overall impact.

Do you think that those who have sought to move away from grids have produced effective design?
I'm sure there are effective designs that don't use grids but they could be improved with the use of a well designed grid.

Do you think grid systems have changed?
Not at all.

Grids are said to help organize, what are your views on this?
I totally agree. Grids help with structure, composition, layout and hierarchy.

Do you think it stems from education, experience, a need to put order on or tame the world?
Not sure where it stems from. For me it's a way of giving meaning to my designs.

How do you think grids/lines have affected the design world as a whole such as in art or architecture?
The beauty of grid systems is that they can be used in any application. They've had a huge impact on the design world.

What attributes should a good layout have and why?
Structure, hierarchy, balance and rhythm.

How do you think grids may be used in the future, what about in 10 or 50 years time?
I hope that over time more and more designers, specifically graphic designers, adopt the use of grid systems.

When we look back on the history of graphic design, art, architecture etc. we as a society can see movements, shifts in styles across all disciplines. As a designer where do you see layout heading?
Not really sure. I am noticing a shift towards a more minimal approach that was popular in the 60s.

Do you think there are any systems that could rival the grid?
Don't know any.

And finally, is there anything else you would like to say about grids?
They're awesome. Embrace them.

Interview With Paul Felton

The next interview for my dissertation was with Paul Felton. He is a designer at Purpose in London and the author of The Ten Commandments Of Typography + Type Heresy: Breaking The Ten Commandments Of Typography:

Name
Paul Felton

Date Of Birth
10/07/84

Location
London

Occupation
Designer

Can you provide me with some of your professional/educational background details?
Staffordshire University 2002-­2005
Graphics BA, 1st Class honors

Had a typography book published September 2006

Placements July 2005-Feb 2006: Fluid Design (Birmingham) Palmer Hargreaves
Wallis Tomlinson (Leamington Spa) Part time lecturer (Staffs Uni)

Feb 06-Feb 08: Holman Group (Birmingham)

Feb 08-Present: Purpose (London)

Do you remember the first time you encountered grids?
I think it was probably at college when I was doing a final exam that consisted of producing some layouts etc and my tutor very briefly introduced them to us

Were you taught grids during your design education or were they something you sought out yourself?
Not a great deal, we touched on them at college and then a bit more at University but for me it was mainly something I have picked up through books and through working with other designers. Things like Baseline grids were never taught at all at uni and very few people I know have a good understanding of them.

How did they make you feel/what did you think of them?
At first a little intimidating to be honest!

There are lots of people who like/dislike grids, where do you stand now and why?
I'm not really sure why they can be disliked to be honest, I can understand that they are not always relevant for every piece of design but I don't think they are anything to dislike! I use them in most design work I do, but I am a predominantly a print designer and the work I do entails me taking information and presenting it to the viewer in a logical, legible way so grids are an essential tool to help me do that.

Do you think that the grid is an elitist design tool?
Not necessarily, but I think with grids and also with things like having a good indepth knowledge of typography, it does have a bit of 'geeky' persona.

From a graphic design point of view do you feel that grids aid or stifle communication and why?
Definitely aid it, as I mentioned before the main purpose of a designer is to communicate messages in an engaging way, I'm not saying that always requires a grid, but when dealing with type it has to be treated in a way that makes it easy to digest, grids aid this process. There is a feeling from some that they can stifle designs, this is naive, some of the best my experimental designs I have seen have been based around a grid.

Do you think that those who have sought to move away from grids have produced effective design?
Yes of course, I went to a lecture by Made Thought and they said they never use grids and there work is fantastic. However in my very early work I didn't always use a grid but found when I revisited the designs, they actually fitted in to a grid if I put one over the top it anyway, as I think most of Made Thoughts probably does. As designers, even if some say they do, we don't do 'random' there has to be some sort of order to our designs or they just won't work.

Do you think grid systems have changed?
I'm not sure they have really, I think the way people use them and experiment with them has and obvious changes in technology and trends affect they way they are implemented but I'm not sure how they can physically change that much.

Grids are said to help organize, what are your views on this?
True, as I said before they help organise information into a legible format. Imagine picking up a newspaper that didn't use a grid, it would be a total mess and people wouldn't be able to absorb the information

Do you think it stems from education, experience, a need to put order on or tame the world?
Its just what us as designers are taught to do, communicate information and messages, and when we see things that aren't doing that properly we strive to put it right.

How do you think grids/lines have affected the design world as a whole such as in art or architecture?
I think art is a completely different ball game to be honest but things like architecture rely on grids, you don't see many buildings where rooms are just randomly placed all over the place, look at the front of most buildings, the windows and doors are all generally aligned to a grid etc. Manhattan in New York is essentially one big grid and that supposedly one of the best cities in the world so they must help!

What attributes should a good layout have and why?
That varies from piece the piece, there isn't a one size fits all approach but things like consideration for hierarchy, legibility, sensitive application of type, good choice of typefaces, interesting imagery, features that draw the viewers attention and make the information appear exciting and intriguing (even if it isn't!)

How do you think grids may be used in the future, what about in 10 or 50 years time?
I think probably very much the same within the realms of print, however I think the mediums we use more increasingly may affect them, a shift from print to more digital work will need different types of grid systems developing, I have seen websites that use similar grids to print layouts that work very well but with things like iphones it will become totally different, not sure a 7 column grid really works on a 2 inch screen!

When we look back on the history of graphic design, art, architecture etc. we as a society can see movements, shifts in styles across all disciplines. As a designer where do you see layout heading?
As I said before the main shift in style I think we, as a generation, will begin to see is a big shift from print to digital. However a statement I hear banded around alot that 'print is dead' is utter nonsense, print will never be dead, even as generations become more and more savvy with the digital realms there are still areas where digital cannot compete, reading a 500 page book on a screen is simply no comparison to having it in print even with these new digital books available. But when it comes to the world of design and branding it will be a much more integrated approach. Take Creative Review for example, a design magazine that has recently refreshed its grid and typefaces etc and they are presented in a really nice layout, I'm a complete sucker for print and nice feeling and looking things but even I don't buy CR now as I can get everything I want to see on their blog, updated a few times a day, I can see others thoughts and opinions and links to other similar things of interest, print cannot (yet) achieve this, plus its free! But if we look at the web at the minute can we say there are any websites out there that anyone will look back at in 50 years time with the same cherish that we do at a Muller Brockmann Poster or Otl Aichers Olympic icons or Typographica Magazine? Not really, but maybe this is where the most notable next shift in style may come and I think layout will play a big part in this.

Do you think there are any systems that could rival the grid?
Not that I can think of!

Interview With Adam Nash

Although my dissertation focused on grids and their influence, some of the answers I received from my interviews with designers are to do with layout which is an important part of editorial design. This one is with Adam Nash, who is head of creative at BrandNew in Armley where I did my work placement last summer:

Do you remember the first time you encountered grids?
At uni, 1999

Were you taught grids during your design education or were they something you sought out yourself?
Bought a book by Bruno Monguzzi, tutors approved and further influenced my interest, I became addicted.

How did they make you feel/what did you think of them?
I wanted to master the grid, it was a measure of learning and understanding design. Having a reason for putting something somewhere, justifying my design.

There are lots of people who like/dislike grids, where do you stand now and why?
Grids can be good and bad depends what you are communicating and who you are communicating to. Grids play their part in setting tone.

Do you think that the grid is an elitist design tool?
No I think it's necessary and should be practised and understood

From a graphic design point of view do you feel that grids aid or stifle communication and why?
Again it can do both it should be used at the right time and in the right way. Not all graphic design should use a grid, signage for an airport or medicinal instruction would be aided by a grid. A montage, mood board something less contrived.

Do you think that those who have sought to move away from grids have produced
effective design?
It's about appropriateness

Do you think grid systems have changed?
They are Developed for each purpose, format and content

Grids are said to help organize, what are your views on this?
They do, they can lead the eye, priorities info etc..

Do you think it stems from education, experience, a need to put order on or tame the world?
Human behaviour and order

How do you think grids/lines have affected the design world as a whole such as in
art or architecture?
It's very similar, it's a deliberate selection, creation, or arrangement

What attributes should a good layout have and why?
Depends on what its for. So many variables, very hard to pin down clear and concise, highly legible and logical might be good for IKEA instructions.

How do you think grids may be used in the future, what about in 10 or 50 years time?
Grids have been around for ages and ages, they can only develop and become more
intuitive applied to future technologies.

When we look back on the history of graphic design, art, architecture etc. we as a society can see movements, shifts in styles across all disciplines. As a designer where do you see layout heading?
Again applied to alternative technologies, could become more formulaic, people may not be needed.

Do you think there are any systems that could rival the grid?
The good old fashioned 'going by eye', things that are too perfect can be less
appealing, less human.

And finally, is there anything else you would like to say about grids?
I've fallen out with my grid.

Interview Email

To focus my research I have sent out the following questions to a few designers. I changed some of these slightly depending on what kind of work they do.

1) What first made you interested in graphic design, in particular typography and layout?

2) How did you start out in graphic design, and get yourself noticed in the industry?

3) What does an average day consist of for you?

4) Who/What has been your inspiration for your design work?

5) How much does budget play a part in your design process?

6) How important is the cover of a publication as opposed to the design of the inner spreads?

7) When you develop a design, in what order do you undertake a project and then in which order do you work?

8) What attributes should a good layout have and why?

9) What considerations need to be made when developing a layout for editorial design?

10) Which publications do you think are particularly well designed?

11) Where do you see editorial design heading in the future? Has there been a shift towards web-based publications and what is your opinion on this?

12) Anything else you’d like to add, or any other advice you could give to a budding designer?

Interview With Tony Chambers

From: http://magculture.com/blog/?p=923

I recently talked to new Wallpaper* editor-in-chief Tony Chmabers about his change of role from designer to editor, and about his plans for the magazine. The resulting profile, below, runs in the current issue of Creative Review.

Every few years a magazine launches that so perfectly reflects its time that it becomes an icon, a mirror of that time. The last couple of decades have seen several examples: The Face, i-D, Loaded, Glamour and most recently Grazia spring to mind. They have all come to mean more than just a magazine, their names being used in adjective form to describe related trends by their fans and critics alike.

Slotted between Loaded and Glamour in that list would be Wallpaper*, a magazine that has received more than its fair share of criticism. Launched in September 1996 by founder/editor Tyler Brulé, it quickly established a reputation as the ultra-cool style bible of the design-conscious, wealthy, urban singleton. Brulé was their leader, living the jet-set continent-hopping lifestyle so often attributed to its readers. If the look of Wallpaper was unlike anything else at the time, combining the then lost art of editorial illustration with highly stylized fashion photography, the content, too, was strikingly different and perfectly timed. The Scandinavian-influenced modernist design ethos featured in its pages appeared at the perfect time for the 90s inner urban warehouse-apartment dwellers, while the internet and cheap EasyJet flights made travel to see the real thing a less exotic possibility.

Wallpaper* however, suffered the fate of so many independently-launched ground-breaking titles. The strength and timeliness of the vision behind the project made it hugely influential on other magazines and newspapers, who were quick to dilute the Wallpaper agenda to suit their own readers. Meanwhile, the magazine itself failed to develop. Having set a radical new direction for its market it found itself unable to set off in further new directions. The once admiring phrase ‘Very Wallpaper*’ came to be used disparagingly as its visual style became clichéd: the covers repeatedly featured frowning Germanic couples wearing Gucci while perching on furniture sourced from newly discovered New York-based designers; and headlines were stuck in the ‘Urban Modernists’ and ‘Winter of Cool Content’ mould.

Within a year, Brulé sold the magazine to IPCMedia, part of TimeWarner, and remained as editor until the probably inevitable but unspecified disagreement that led him to depart in 2002. The creative team went through a brief period of turmoil as IPC sought to mix new faces with the old Brulé team – there are several ‘name’ creatives out there who endured brief involvement at this time – before new editor Jeremy Langmead and Creative Director Tony Chambers were appointed. They set about reinventing the magazine, carrying out a quiet revolution that passed most people by. Certainly, the original Wallpaper* concept was so enduring that it took me (and many others, I suspect) a while to notice the changes that were made.

But changes happened, and over the past eighteen months Wallpaper* really has begun to alter people’s perceptions of what it is, building a new reputation that owes much to the creative direction of Tony Chambers. And in a surprise move, Chambers has just moved from designing to editing the magazine. The current issue is his first as Editor-in-Chief.

Such a change of role is unprecedented. It is the combination of content and design that give a magazine it’s character, and so it follows that the relationship between the editor and designer is key to every magazine. As Chambers explains, ‘I’ve always believed the editor and the art director are equals in producing a magazine. In the end the editor is obviously the boss, they get the plaudits of success and it’s their head on the block when things go wrong. But I believe it’s a partnership, the two roles go hand in hand. An editor has to have total respect for the art director and how they interpret the editor’s content, and the art director has to be able to understand and contribute content’. This collaborative relationship is core to every successful magazine and is the part that can confuse designers outside the editorial world. Magazine design is not simply taking content and displaying it on a page, it is about understanding and developing the content to make it work on the page.

While the two lead creative roles can often crossover, even blur, it remains incredibly rare for one job to lead to the other. The only other high-profile example was the late Mark Boxer, art director of early 1960s titles Queen and Go!, who was subsequently editor of the Sunday Times Magazine. But that was a simpler time in magazine publishing, there were less commercial pressures.

Chambers experience before Wallpaper* helps explain how he has to come to make this unique move. Coincidentally, it was on the 1980s version of the Sunday Times Magazine that Chambers first encountered editorial design. ‘When I graduated I had no real interest in magazines at all, I was more into pure graphic design and typography, but I got a junior’s job at The Sunday Times and after a few months I was bitten by the bug’, he explains. Art Director Michael Rand provided a link with the original 1960s magazine, having been there since the beginning. ‘Rand was a journalistic art director, and though it didn’t really make sense to me at the time, it was obviously seeping in a little bit. You’d watch him create stories visually, and fashion individual elements that as a graphic designer with very little experience you didn’t really think about. For Michael, design and visual gymnastics weren’t very high on his agenda’. What was high on his agenda was ‘taking disparate elements and turning them into a story’.

Chambers spent ten years at the magazine, learning to combine his love of detailed design with the journalistic rigour passed on by Rand. This was clearly a very important part in his development of an editorial voice, ‘There wasn’t a career-chasing ambition there, you just knew you were amongst good people and that was job satisfaction in itself. You were part of this big team and everyone pulled together’. Others editorial designers in the team over the years included David Hillman, Clive Crook and John Tennant. The magazine is now a sad shadow of its former self but from 1963 through to the mid 90s it was a breeding ground for editorial talent.

In 1996 Chambers moved to run his first project, as art director of British GQ. Here he set out to apply what he had learned at the Times, ‘I had two missions: firstly to bring my photojournalistic experience from the Times and secondly to add the kind of typographic detailing that going back to my college days I was really into. I always felt that glossies like GQ paid lots of attention to the features well, they always looked loved, but that the front of book sections really weren’t loved at all’. This all-encompassing attention to design detail is a trait very present in the current Wallpaper*.

At GQ he also got to work alongside some of the strongest editorial figures of recent years, including James Brown and Dylan Jones. Both have clearly been strong influences; Brown in particular seems to have made an impression on Chambers, and you sense that the slight of hand pulled off by Brown while at GQ has influenced him greatly. ‘James Brown was brought in to help GQ stand up to successful newcomers FHM and Loaded (which had been conceived by Brown). He was given a brief to go to town with content, really push the boundaries, while visually letting me get on with what I do. And James totally did that. From the advertisers standpoint, even if some of the content was on the edge, the magazine was looking gorgeous. The whole thing was a magicians act, presenting one thing to the readers and something completely different to the advertisers’. Hearing Chambers talk you realise he is constantly mixing references to photography and design with strategic ideas and editorial thinking. The change of role becomes less surprising.

Chambers recalls the first time he saw a copy of Wallpaper*, ‘It made me go wow. It was an incredible invention of publishing, to take what had normally been seen as quite po-faced and serious and give it a lifestyle gloss that made it accessible and sexy. I loved it’. It’s taken Langmead and Chambers four years to drag the magazine out of it’s subsequent rut. Last year was Wallpaper*’s best year yet for sales and advertising, and the series of special covers celebrating the magazine’s tenth anniversary, culminating in the multi-award winning cover design by Alan Fletcher, have attracted renewed attention to the title. Clearly his appointment as editor is in part recognition of these successes.

So what does Chambers plan now he’s in charge? ‘Well there’s no revolution needed. It’s doing well, it’s liked, people are confident with it. We’re here to stay, its not a novelty any more, but we can’t stand still’. One immediate goal is to get the various editorial departments (interiors, fashion, architecture) to work together more closely, and to kick start that a new fashion director, Kim Andreolli has been hired. ‘That’s my big thing. It’s so obvious, it’s the strength of Wallpaper* that we have all these experts’.

A redesign is planned for September, the first time since his introduction of the swash font specially-designed for the magazine by Matthew Carter. That redesign was part of Chambers’ ploy to get readers saying “that’s not very Wallpaper*” when they looked at the magazine; previously the design had been centred on a heavy teutonic sans serif typeface. Meanwhile the logo is being adapted slightly (see sidebar) to emphasise the importance of the internet. The web, he says, ‘will be the making of Wallpaper*’.

Chambers is an exception in the magazine world, a designer who has the ability and enthusiasm to apply his passion for editorial creativity to both sides of the creative partnership. He understands the power of strong editorial direction having seen it executed at close hand by some of the UKs leading practitioners, and it’s not surprising to see a magazine like Wallpaper* taking advantage of his talent. Will others follow him into an editorial role? ‘I don’t see why not, but it depends how this goes. If it’s a disaster it might never happen again!’

Somehow, I don’t think he’ll fail. Watch out for more crossovers in the future.

Roman Cieslewicz

Interview with Roman Cieslewicz who designed for lots of magazines such as Elle and Vogue before moving onto poster design and teaching. From Eye magazine, issue 9.

Roman Cieslewicz

Roman Cieslewicz was born in Lwow, Poland in 1930. He graduated from the Academy of Fine Arts, Cracow in 1955, moved to France in 1963 and became a French citizen in 1971. He has worked for several press and publishing houses, including Elle, Vogue and Opus, and various cultural organisations, such as the Festival d’Automne and the Pompidou Centre. A professional militant, Cieslewicz avoids the groups that are active and influential in France: the admen, the Swiss school, the ‘politicos’. Yet it was he who introduced the Polish poster to the country, unleashing all those influences which continue even now to determine French poster design, particularly in the political, social and cultural fields.

Though his approach is comparable with that of the Polish school, Cieslewicz has created his own technique and language, which he applies to posters, publications, photomontages and illustration. His graphic ideas are expressed in a haunting and incisive style. His output is prolific, his approach disturbingly free, with accidental elements permitted to challenge the typographical order. Since 1975, Cieslewicz has taught at the Ecole Superieure des Arts Graphiques in Paris. He has exhibited widely and is a member of the Alliance Graphique Internationale. He lives and works in Malakoff, in suburban Paris.

Margo Rouard-Snowman: You have been a graphic designer for 40 years. Where did you train and who influenced you?

Roman Cieslewicz: I don’t think anyone influenced me. But my training with George Karolak at the Academy of Fine Arts in Cracow was important – I took his classes for four years and it was everything to me. Karolak was a graphic artist of the same generation as Henryk Tomaszewski and he shared the same philosophy. He was one of the few who resisted socialist realism, and he was shunned by the establishment because he refused to modify his projects in line with its demands. Despite this, he produced superb posters for the theatre of Cracow. In his graphic composition course he taught us how to assemble the essential elements of a good poster. His method of teaching was absolutely free, but his kind of freedom was frowned on and subjected to all kinds of control. I also studied typography with Professor Gardowski, and took classes in illustration and painting.

Tadeusz Kantor taught at the school and his weekly two-hour classes in scenography provided us with information and news from the west – a lifeline to the outside. In this cultural desert, with its zero information level, my only refuge was the Cracow library, where I would go to look at the magazine produced by the Blok group, a revolutionary association of poets, typographers and montagists, which provided a window to the Polish avant-garde. I would also often meet there a very committed designer, montagist and friend of John Heartfield – Mieczyslaw Berman.

Berman was a Pole, living in Warsaw, and he gave me a job in his studio. He was true communist. He fled anti-semitic Poland during the war and spent five years in the Soviet army. In the Soviet Union he was influenced by the satirical montagist Zytomirski and by Alexander Rodchenko, whose work was then still unpublished. Through a combination of satire and humour in the face of serious situations, Berman managed to resist the official socialist-realist art.

My studies were therefore much influenced by Karolak, Kantor, Gardowski, Berman and the Blok group. They gave me my first clear perspective on proportion, and an apprenticeship in the art of compositional imbalance – balancing elements without necessarily centring them.

M R-S: In addition to your commissioned work, you also undertake personal work of your own. What is your relation to painting?

RC: I’ve always liked images that have an impact on the street, but I’m a graphic artist – I’ve never pretended to be painter. I don’t like ‘image images’. What I find attractive are the icons of the street, current affairs, news items. I also like those nineteenth-century engravings with their long-winded, anecdotal texts, and torn posters, for example. The war taught us a lasting lesson: whatever the current graphic trends, it seems that serious situations give rise to an incredible number of posters.

M R-S: To what extent did your family background determine your choice of career?

RC: My parents were simple people whose main contribution was to give me plenty of encouragement to work. My father was a craftsman who made fireplaces, often reconstructions of old pieces he had drawn. As a child I was constantly drawing round forms. The circle was of immense importance to me, which was probably to do with the bread rolls my mother sent me to buy every morning. I still remember the wonderful signs at the baker’s. At six years old I was already taking great pleasure in the signs of the street.

M R-S: How did you begin your professional career?

RC: After graduating in 1955 I was taken on by a propaganda agency in Warsaw. Wag produced posters for political, social and cultural events nationwide – popular festivals, safety notices, circus announcements, theatre shows. Every national campaign required posters, but most of the time the pretext was illogical and unreasonable. Some twenty graphic designers produced around 100 posters a year, which were offset printed, in four colours, on 90 or 100 gsm paper. After Wag, in 1960-61, I worked for a magazine called You and Me, a Polish version of Elle. It had 64 pages and a print run of 10,000, and was a huge popular success. I devised its format, based on western publications. Its editor chose themes that were fresh – a break from the 1920s. There was even space for both Steinberg and Malakowski.

M R-S: Given your success, what made you decide to leave Poland?

RC: I wanted to leave Poland to see how my posters would stand up to the neon light of the west. I dreamed of Paris, but went first to Italy because of Eugenio Carmi, the art director of Italsider, a large iron and steel manufacturer in Genoa. I met Carmi when he came to Warsaw for an exhibition of Italian painters, and he invited me to Genoa, giving me a commission for five photomontages for the entrance hall of the manufacturing plant. The montages were each three metres by two and consisted of small elements photographed individually, then enlarged and assembled in the desired format.

On a later visit to Paris I met Peter Knapp, the photographer and art director of Elle. He had seen and liked You and Me, and commissioned me to design photomontages for various columns, including the horoscope page. Soon after this, he asked me to work on the layout of the magazine. Cropping photographs and pasting up text hardly seemed creative to me, but I was dazzled by this journalistic machine: 200 people working to produce 250 pages that would end up in the bin the next day.

During my time at Elle, where I later became art director, I met many people who gave me work. The publishers La Hune, Christian Bourgois (10/18 collections), Maimé Arnodin, Hélène Lazareff, Edmonde Charles Roux, among others – major figures in the press and publishing world at the time.

M R-S: What are your favourite design techniques?

RC: I use all manner of techniques: photography, painting and watercolour, but not drawing. I have a constant source of inspiration: circular forms. I’ve often used the offset screen, which I discovered at Elle, to focus on a detail of a photographic enlargement. The flexibility and round form of the screen dots make it possible to bring out each gesture of the subject. Also, because I couldn’t afford silk-screen printing equipment, I used felt pens to fill out the areas between the screens. I effectively made the screen dots by hand. A lack of equipment and the need to visualise my ideas immediately resulted in a repetitive reproduction of mechanical techniques. I find the many imperfections of the hand-made version very pleasing.

My favourite colours are black and red. I don’t like blue and I adore lemon yellow, which, coupled with black, has a striking effect.

For all my projects, I make sketches at a scale 1:10, that is 8 x 12cm, or 4 x 6cm for posters that are 40 x 60cm. First, I compose the format. I start with the four corners, draw one vertical, at an angle, then the outside edges. Next I position the various elements, framing more tightly and sometimes cropping as I go. I find that this classical technique of composition suits me well. My professional decisions, my responses to commissions, are dominated by impatience; the pencil expresses my ideas more quickly than any mechanical tool could.

M R-S: Typography is important to your projects. What are your preferences in this area?

RC: When I’m designing a poster, I think of the visual mass of the type and not of the details. Even if I’m designing 1:1 I always imagine how it would look big. I’m against the idea of reducing a poster to the size of a matchbox, because I’m convinced that each image functions in relation to the space around it, to the distance between it and the reader.

My favourite type forms reflect the same idea. There are the woodcut letters you used to see on notices at the police station, and the typefaces produced by the Viennese printer Bertold, including one which, curiously enough, is called Blok. I really like that typeface: it’s bold, with magnificent proportions for short words, and it creates a good impact. I also use Milton Glaser’s Milton typeface, which is related to Cassandre’s Bifur, but modernised and stripped of all the lines which coarsened the letters. For standard book texts, I often use Rockwell.

M R-S: What about the computer?

RC: You can imagine anything you like and put it on computer, but it will never have the perfection of the hand-drawn image or the freedom which I value so much. I don’t like the square, aggressive teeth of the computer screen unless you deliberately incorporate this in a composed image. New images for me grow out of fortuitous accidents made by hand. Though I’ve enjoyed using Paintbox, I can’t see the computer contributing much to my work. I prefer the Polaroid because it is straightforward, ephemeral, instantaneous. It expresses a bare truth stripped of superfluous elements.

M R-S: You have been in France since 1963. What do you think of French graphic design?

RC: France has no strong typographic tradition – it has always refused to be influenced by the unmannered English school and has rejected the Viennese and German schools in favour of Italian aestheticism and gallantry. I say gallantry because it is the image that dominates at the expense of the sign and the type. In the 1960s, Swiss typography, in particular Helvetica, overcame the French taste for ‘tutti frutti’ and frills. After the war, and again now, American influence is strong, particularly in the press.

In short, French typography has found it difficult to match the mood of the country. On the whole, it still has problems in reconciling text and image. And French graphic designers are sick because they haven’t got enough work. I also can’t stand the lack of recognition for graphic designers as a profession.

M R-S: Do you think the poster is dying out?

RC: I think it is. It’s no longer the means of expression it used to be, partly because of competition from television and partly because of the blandness of the subjects – household appliances and food do not inspire great design. Posters need strong themes, which at present they lack. As a form of communication, they belong to another age.

M R-S: What are the links between your poster designs and your photomontages?

RC: My personal work runs parallel to my commercial work and is an indispensable supplement to it. I see myself not as an artist, but as a graphic designer who makes use of all available media, whether illustration, logos, posters, journals. The visual laws vary, but the means of expression are the same. The photomontages are part of a vital ‘cleansing’ process for me. Though they are generally uncommissioned, they turn up sooner or later in my printed work.

M R-S: Why are your recent illustrations, particularly in the press, much more stripped down or minimalist than some of your posters?

RC: I am primarily a poster designer who has adapted his work for the press because of a lack of appropriate commissions. Poster designers who talk too much end up saying nothing. But the relationship with magazine readers is more intimate; you aren’t separated by a distance of 150 metres. The economy of means and minimalist presentation are a result of the format and the distance from the reader. And in developing my work over 40 years, I’ve become more tight-fisted.

M R-S: What made you go back to doing photomontages?

RC: Kamikaze’s use of black and white in 1975-76 inspired me to return to photomontages (not collages, as people sometimes call them). The montage gives a richer result than straight graphics. An image is bare if it is not supported by a word. It is a form of expression that I find appropriate to our times, perfectly adapted to contemporary mass media.

M R-S: Your images have certain distinct themes.

RC: The circle is an obsession which has translated into my work. There are also themes such as hands, eyes, jaws, legs, which are determined by the commissions. But beyond that I play a game to see where I can go without getting caught up in a system. Contrary to what some people think, I do not disfigure women. I am frank with them. There’s no censure involved.

M R-S: What do you see as the elements of a good poster design?

RC: An image, a word. And the regular to-and-fro between them. The idea is contained in the image, and it is the relationship between the image and the text which gives it force.

M R-S: You are now teaching at a school of graphic arts in Paris. What recommendations would you give to students?

RC: My students in the third year at the Ecole Superieure des Arts Graphiques have to work to become graphic designers. They develop their creative skills within a framework of research and production directed towards a given theme. They create a visual message which is functional and effective with regard to the given problem, and hone their critical sensibility by proposing solutions to the problem through every stage of the process, from beginning to end. They experiment with forms, techniques, processes and materials.

M R-S: What goals do you have for your own work?

RC: To have more commissions for posters. To be able to comment on current affairs, on news items in the newspapers I like. To design, and to keep on designing and pursuing my attempts to ‘steer the eye’.

Interview by Margo Rouard-Snowman, 1993.

Roman Cieslewicz died in 1996. 

Rudy Vanderlans Interview 5

SpeakUp. Published in 2002.
Interview by Armin Vit.

Speak Up: The first thing I would like to address is the love/hate relationship that most people, and admittedly me, have with Emigre. One year it's "Emigre is great, they are on the leading edge of Graphic Design" and the next year it's "Emigre is so five minutes ago and so overrated?" Is it hard to please all the people all the time? Do you even feel the need to please everybody? Since you are selling a product it must be hard to do things (be that magazines, fonts or music) that are different and unexpected with the possibility of losing customers because of that.
Rudy Vanderlans: Since people's preferences vary so much it's impossible to try and please everybody. If you would try that you'd end up somewhere in the middle and you would please everybody only minimally, or not at all. So we try to follow our own instincts, and go with what excites us. But that doesn't mean we're not interested in what people have to say about our work. I'm a design junkie. I read all the magazines and visit the on-line forums. Plus people send us letters, e-mail us, or call us up. So I think I have a pretty good sense of what people think of Emigre, which hasn't change much over the years. Some people hate us, some people love us, and most people don't give a damn. Charles Bukowski provided me with that little nugget of wisdom. So we don't worry too much about losing customers. If people don't like what we do, so be it. I won't change my preferences and convictions simply to please others. We're not politicians. We're not running for public office.
SU: Do you think that what made you successful back in 1984 was the innovation that you were able to provide with the advent of the Macintosh? And that now it's harder to impress or appeal to the new generation of Designers who were basically brought up and educated with a Macintosh?
RvdL: I hope our work appeals on a level that goes beyond how we master the computer. But you're right. We made a name for ourselves because we became involved in using the Mac before most other graphic designers did. And in those days, before PostScript was invented, the Macintosh provided its own unique visual bitmapped language. Everything you did on the Mac looked like it was done on a computer, which set it apart from all other graphic design work at that time. And since there were very few people using computers in design in those days, there was no visual precedents, no examples to copy, except for your grandmother's needle point. Today, I find the computer far less interesting. Everybody has one. It is definitely not any more the tool that will set your work apart. On the contrary, the computer now assures a certain level of homogeneity.
SU: This is a silly question, but one that needs to be asked nonetheless, how come a lot of your typeface names end in "x"? Elektrix, Fairplex, Lunatix, Matrix, Solex, Triplex and Variex. I told you it was a silly question.
RvdL: If there ever was a reason, I can't remember it.
SU: This weekend I was watching Murder by Numbers (the latest Sandra Bullock movie) and the opening credits are set in Template Gothic, designed by Barry Deck for Emigre back in 1990. A typeface better known for being responsible of starting the boom in experimental typography. Twelve years later this typeface, which is considered a disgrace in typography by a lot of purists (whatever) is still being used. What do you feel makes Template Gothic so influential? And to add to that question, what makes Emigre so influential after eighteen years of existence, even when you have had to reinvent yourself over and over?
RvdL: To set the record straight. Template Gothic was not designed for Emigre. It was designed by Barry Deck while he was a student at Cal Arts in the early 90s. Under the auspices of Ed Fella and Jeffery Keedy there was a lot of exciting type design experimentation going on at CalArts in those days. I remember that particular graduate class came to visit our studio in '92 or so. That's when we first saw Template Gothic. We liked the font and asked Barry if he would let us release it commercially. We had no idea it would become so successful. Although we did promote it quite a bit. We featured an interview with Barry in Emigre #15, an issue which also featured the first interviews with Jeffery Keedy, Zuzana Licko, John Downer, Max Kisman, etc. Barry had an interesting story to tell about Template Gothic which helped create a little bit of an aura around the font. We've always tried to tell stories to show that these fonts don't just appear spontaneously. We do this with all our fonts.
We also used Template Gothic prominently on the cover and inside of Emigre #19, which was a very popular issue. David Carson used Template Gothic quite a bit in the mid 90s, and that didn't hurt. The movie Dazed & Confused used it in its posters and movie titles. And then Rick Poynor wrote an article about Template Gothic for Eye. The font received a lot of exposure within a short period of time. But it still doesn't explain, to me at least, what the inherent qualities are that made it so desirable.
If I knew why Template Gothic became so popular, I could turn every font release into a success. But I don't know how it works. Whenever we release a font we have no idea how it will be received. We give them all the same kind of exposure.
It's perhaps also interesting to mention that Template Gothic didn't sell nearly as well as many other Emigre Fonts. A font like Mrs Eaves has out sold Template Gothic many times over. I see Mrs Eaves everywhere. It is financially probably the most successful font that Emigre has released to date. Yet it doesn't have that same aura as Template Gothic.
I'm equally stumped about Emigre's influence, if there is such a thing. I've often heard people refer to an Emigre style, but no one has ever spelled out what that is, what it looks like. So if we have been influential, as you say, I'm not sure what and who we have influenced. I hope we have shown people that it is possible to follow your own compass, so to speak, and be successful in this very competitive type market.
SU: Which brings to me the next question, what goes through your mind when you have to reinvent your magazine from the ground up every three or four years? Is it frustrating that you have to be constantly changing your approach to satisfy the superficial curiosity of designers? I say "superficial" because half, if not more, of your subscribers don't even read the magazine.
RvdL: Again, I don't change Emigre magazine simply to satisfy the readers. There's too many of them, and I don't really know what their preferences are anyway. And I'm not sure if people don't read Emigre. Emigre gets flooded with reader mail. Particularly when we publish design theory and criticism. That tells me that people do read it.
And perhaps it's a myth that designers don't read. Like Jeffery Keedy once said. Designers do read, they just don't read design magazines. And who can blame them? In most design magazines the emphasis is clearly on the visuals, and the editorial is secondary, it's just there to support the visuals. On the other hand, perusing the visuals is a kind of "reading" also. It requires a certain visual literacy to appreciate looking at reproductions of graphic design.
The reason we often change the magazine is because we can. We're not a newsstand magazine, and we're not a weekly or monthly, and we don't rely on advertising. We're not restricted in that sense, like other magazines. So there's an opportunity to reinvent the magazine every time we publish it. And I think it makes complete sense for a graphic design magazine to explore different formats. We don't just talk design, we practice it! We have gone from a two color, oversized sheet fed format, to the cookie cutter full color web offset trade magazine format, to a cardboard CD packaging format including actual CDs, and next we're tackling the pocket book format. It's a challenge. It keeps me intellectually and creatively busy, and hopefully the results engage our readers.
But when I'm working on Emigre magazine I rarely think about how it will be received. I try to be honest and truthful to my own convictions and ideas, and not make too big a fool of myself, which on rare occasions I succeed at. We are often criticized for being self-indulgent. And we probably are. Emigre magazine provides a view into what we like and what is important to us, and it's often very subjective and opinionated. If you are looking for an objective view of graphic design you should not read Emigre magazine.
SU: Another question that seems to be in every designer's mind is when are you going to redesign your web site? I noticed the improvement in the Style Sheets from Times to Verdana, and it made such a huge difference. Are you looking to make a stronger use of the web for Emigre as a magazine? Perhaps pushing the boundaries of the web, like you did with editorial design. The functionality and accessibility of your site are really good, and it's probably to employ it as an e-commerce site. Have you considered having a sister site dedicated to expanding on some of the design issues that a quarterly magazine can't cover?
RvdL: I'm pleased that you like the functionality and accessibility of the site, because that's what we've worked on for years. The site is fully integrated with our inventory and accounting. I think we've pushed enough boundaries in that department. We were one of the first foundries to sell fonts on line, and one of the first to have a type setter. But the web is developing at such a rapid pace, it's impossible to keep up if you also publish a magazine, design fonts, and do your own distribution. Emigre is a very small company. Currently it's Tim, Ella, Zuzana and me. We have to constantly make decisions on how to allocate our time. Right now, our web site does exactly what we want it do, and we're still more interested in exploring print and designing fonts than web site design.
Plus, the e-commerce capabilities of the web, and the power of the internet to make available nearly any kind of information, really impresses me. It seems anything we do to enhance it visually, pales in comparison or diminishes that power. So we leave off the bells and whistles and let it do what we think it's best at.
SU: In the last paragraph of Emigre #63's Introduction you say: "Our next issue will focus on design writing once again." Does it seem like you went full circle to come back to the original vision of the magazine? What can we expect from Emigre in the near future?
RvdL: Actually, in terms of content, the original vision for Emigre magazine had very little to do with graphic design. But that's a long and boring story, although it would explain that funky name of ours. But as far as our future plans go, we are returning to making Emigre magazine far more exclusive again by dramatically reducing our circulation. In that sense we are coming full circle. At one point, with Emigre #42, we were giving the magazine away to nearly 40,000 Emigre customers.
With Emigre #64 there will be three major changes. First, Princeton Architectural Press will become the publisher of Emigre. Second, we will discontinue our free subscriptions. And third, as I mentioned before, the new format will be a pocket book.
The first issue in this new format will consist of a series of "rants" by a number of past and present Emigre collaborators about the state of Graphic Design in 2002. I've noticed a lack of critical investigation of today's graphic design scene, and very few if any new voices are writing passionately about graphic design. There's all these new design styles circulating, but they all seem to exist independent of ideology or any kind of conviction, and it has generated very little in depth analysis or opposition. With Emigre #64 we hope to correct that.

Rudy Vanderlans Interview 4

HOW Magazine. Published in 2003.
Interview by Jenny Wohlfarth.

Ever wondered what it takes to self-publish a magazine? Several firms and type foundries featured in the February 2003 issue of HOW Magazine have done exactly that: launched original, creative publications that have taken on a life of their own, helping promote design ideology and firm/foundry name recognition. Among the most successful of these publications is Emigre, a quarterly magazine whose 19-year legacy is indisputable in professional design circles. HOW writer Jenny Wohlfarth interviewed Emigre founder Rudy VanderLans to get the inside story on the magazine's creation, mission and formula for success.
HOW: In your opinion, what publication(s) really launched the trend of design firms/font houses publishing their own magazines? What indie-press (or mainstream) publications served as examples for you when you launched Emigre in 1984?
Rudy VanderLans: I'm not sure who started the trend, or if there ever was a trend, but ITC's U&lc, when Herb Lubalin designed it, was perhaps the first magazine published by a foundry that I was aware of, and that I really liked. Plus Hard Werken, the magazine published by the Dutch design group of the same name, was a great inspiration. The fact that the early issues of Emigre were roughly the same size as both Hard Werken and U&lc was no coincidence.
HOW: Why did you decide to start publishing this magazine? What's the inspiration behind the name Emigre?
RvdL: Together with a few artist friends we figured, naively, that publishing a magazine was an easy way to showcase our own work and the work of people we admired. We knew nothing about the pitfalls of magazine publishing and distribution. So we went full-steam ahead. We called the magazine Emigre because the people involved in the magazine were all literally emigres (emigrants). And the idea for the magazine was to feature the work of artists, designers, writers, etc. who had the experience of living and working in different countries. We believed this exposure to other cultures infused their work with a unique flavor.
HOW: As I understand it, once Emigre started attracting attention, readers began asking about the fonts used in the magazine, which were custom-designed for the publication by your wife, Zuzana Licko. In a way, the magazine seems to be the proverbial goose that laid the golden egg for you and Zuzana's careers/business. If it started as a labor of love, did you ever think it would lead to a business that could financially stand on its own?
RvdL: Not at first. Graphic designers were very slow to become involved with the Macintosh. It wasn't until the late '80s or early '90s that designers started working on Macintosh computers on a large scale. That's when our font sales started to take off, and that's when we decided to stop working for outside clients and started concentrating all our efforts on designing, licensing and marketing our fonts. That's when, in a sense, Emigre became a font foundry. And the magazine became the testing ground for the use of these fonts, and it also allowed us to discuss graphic design and type design issues in a way that we felt other magazines were not. But never in our wildest dreams did we think we'd end up running a type foundry selling digital typefaces. Zuzana started off studying architecture at U.C.-Berkeley, and I went to art school because I wanted to become an illustrator.
HOW: Today, do you consider Emigre to be a labor-of-love endeavor or a viable business endeavor? Or is it a mix of both?
RvdL: Emigre magazine is one part of a larger business model puzzle that even we have difficulty understanding, let alone explaining. I wish I could say that Emigre magazine pays for itself through subscriptions, back issue sales and advertising. But it doesn't. Not even close. But it's not just a labor of love or vanity publication, either. Emigre magazine allows us to promote and showcase our fonts, provide a context for their use, and it has helped establish the name and brand of Emigre fonts. It's the Emigre font sales that subsidize Emigre magazine. They're joined at the hip, so to speak.
HOW: Emigre has long defined itself as a "magazine that ignores boundaries" and has lived up to that self-proclamation by being highly experimental and artistically entrepreneurial. But it has evolved and changed (i.e., in the past, the editorial has shifted from very visual content to more theoretical/text-driven in the '90s, and, more recently, back to a more visual-driven approach with the smaller format). How do you describe/characterize the personality of this magazine today? How has its mission evolved since 1984?
RvdL: Its central mission, the underlying motivation to publish Emigre, has remained the same. We simply want to challenge ourselves creatively and intellectually and in the process hope to engage our readers. It's taken on a variety of forms and expressions, including formal experiments, critical writing about graphic design, interviews with designers, social commentary, and the inclusion of music CDs. I would describe the magazine's personality as benignly schizophrenic.
HOW: What would you identify as some of the key moments/highlights of the magazine's evolution over the years? (i.e., the Designers Republic issue, the publication of the First Things First manifesto, the launch of the Emigre music label in 1990).
RvdL: Every single issue is a major undertaking. Since it's a quarterly, I spend three months working on each issue. It's a great deal of effort: from buying the paper directly from the paper manufacturer to dealing with the advertiser who can't figure out how to submit their ad as an Illustrator EPS file to editing and designing. Some of the issues come out really great, others really bad. But to me they all present key moments, because so much work goes into every single issue. They're all monumental accomplishments, for me.
HOW: What are some of the more memorable issues - or your favorites, if you have any? Or what past issues/features/topics do you consider to be exemplary of Emigre's mission/goal?
RvdL: The issues I'm most happy with are the ones that have a very strong theme in terms of content and design, such as Emigre #34, #39, #54 and #56. Formally, my two favorite issues are #32 and #39. They are the complete opposite in terms of their design concept, but they both perfectly visualize, strengthen and underline the theme of the respective issues.
Issue #39 featured a series of articles dealing with the notion of "Graphic Design and The Next Big Thing." Since nobody really ever knows what the next big thing will be, I decided to design a rather "neutral" layout using one sans-serif typeface, set flush left and ragged right, printed in black and red, without a single image or reproduction of any kind. This may not sound like much, but we published this in the heydays of typographic experimentation, when legibility was being tested to the utmost, often within the pages of Emigre. I was very proud of the restraint in this issue. And looking at design trends today, perhaps I wasn't far off the mark regarding the next big thing, either.
I'm also quite proud of the some more recent issues: Emigre #60, which presented music CDs, and a DVD in issue #62, as their main content. It was a new way of looking at what the content of a magazine can be. It was also quite a challenge to figure out which manufacturers to use, what materials to use, how to assemble - all on a very limited budget. These were definitely memorable issues, and they are perhaps exemplary of Emigre's goal to challenge ourselves on every level, and to always try and reinvent what we do.
HOW: How is the magazine distributed? Is it still available on newsstands or is it entirely subscription-based now? What's the average print run per issue? What's the total paid and unpaid circulation?
RvdL: For the past 20 issues or so, our circulation has hovered between 25,000 and 40,000 copies depending on how many "active" customers we have in our mailing list. Most of these copies are mailed directly to our qualified U.S. customers for free. Emigre distributes about 2,000 copies to stores around the world, and we have about 700 foreign subscribers who pay for the magazine.
HOW: I recall reading that your first issue had no typesetting budget, so the text was basically typewriter type resized on a photocopier. How, initially, did you afford to publish Emigre? What production tricks did you have up your sleeve for keeping the publication's costs manageable in the earlier years?
RvdL: We paid for it simply by emptying our bank accounts. The few ads we sold barely covered the cost of sending out the promo kits to get advertisers. The first issues were published before the Macintosh was out, so typesetting was done as you describe it, and I spent a lot of time at the local Xerox copy place either enlarging or reducing typewriter copy. For Emigre #3, in order to save money, Zuzana and I rolled up our sleeves and saddle-stitched 3,000 copies by hand. For issue #4, I did all the prepress work myself; shooting halftones on a stat camera, stripping, burning offset plates, etc. We have also relied heavily, and still do, on the kindness and goodness of the many people who have contributed their time and talents to Emigre for no or little pay. It was never easy or glamorous. It was a lot of really hard work, and it was worth it.
HOW: What percentage of your business's annual revenue does the magazine account for?
RvdL: Emigre magazine accounts for roughly one-tenth of our business's total annual revenue, derived from back-issue sales, advertising and foreign subscriptions.
HOW: The magazine has garnered its own colorful reputation over the years, but how did you originally market it and get the word out about it?
RvdL: It was a matter of building a mailing list, little by little, and sending out small postcards, flyers and posters. Also, in those early days I used to lecture a lot at universities and local AIGA chapters around the country, and did workshops. This was a great way to get exposure for our work, plus I was able to make a lot of contacts with people who ended up contributing to Emigre magazine.
HOW: What are the greatest challenges involved in creating/self-publishing this magazine? On the flipside, what are some of the perks (such as being able to set your own agenda in the magazine's pages)?
RvdL: The challenge is to keep what we do exciting for ourselves. This is made easier when graphic design as a whole provides some kind of excitement. The early '90s, for instance was a very exciting time for graphic design, and for us. Design became computerized, technologies changed, and many established notions about graphic design were being challenged and questioned by a new garde of young designers who were very vocal. We found ourselves right in the middle of this, and were able to use Emigre as a platform for debate and experimentation.
HOW: How do you find time to publish a high-quality, intellectually and visually stimulating quarterly magazine in addition to running a type foundry? It appears that you still shoulder the bulk of the editorial and art direction/design functions of the magazine yourself. How many "full-time" people work on Emigre? What nuclear-strength caffeine are you consuming on a daily basis?
RvdL: My main function at Emigre is to publish Emigre magazine. Zuzana runs the type foundry. And Tim Starback is our general office manager; he's in charge of sales and distribution. There is no editorial or design or production staff at Emigre. I am the entire magazine staff. Zuzana takes care of all the type-related issues, including design and production. Emigre is currently a four-person company. And I drink decaf.
HOW: You've said before in interviews that people tend to overlook the business side of Emigre. How much of your time is spent on the business (vs. the creative) side of making Emigre happen?
RvdL: Perhaps too much at times. We find pleasure in having complete control over the entire process of creating products - from conceptualization to design to manufacture to marketing to distribution. It places you in a unique relationship with the products that you create. You can make informed and quick decisions every step along the way. We're also involved in licensing issues, contract writing, etc. But it does, at times, become a precarious juggling act in terms of time. Zuzana and I went to art school. We knew nothing about running a business, so we learned everything the hard way.
HOW: How do you recruit your contributors, and are they typically paid for writing/guest editing/designing?
RvdL: We were lucky enough to be around in the early '90s when schools like Cranbrook and CalArts and Yale were encouraging students to write about design as an extension of the practice of design. Most of our regular writers and guest editors came from these design schools. And Emigre magazine owes a great deal of its reputation to these contributors. And yes, we have always tried to pay our contributors, but this may take on various forms, from actual money to all kinds of trades and bartering, depending on a variety of circumstances.
HOW: The magazine received much criticism in the late 1980s/early '90s from outspoken design traditionalists/modernists. How did that motivate you to push the magazine's boundaries even farther? How did those difficult years - or do you even consider them to have been "difficult"? - contribute to or influence the magazine's long-term growth and success?
RvdL: I was surprised that people had paid such close attention to what we were doing. In those days our circulation was around 3,000 copies. Right then I realized that the ideas we were presenting through Emigre were quite good. Why else would these "design traditionalists" make such a fuss? But these were not "difficult" years. It was exciting! The old garde was very passionate about their work, and so were we. And it created some wonderful debates about graphic design, which played out over a number of years in various magazines, such as the AIGA Journal, Eye and Emigre.
HOW: In your opinion, why do people read Emigre? What draws them to it?
RvdL: I think they're somewhat intrigued by the spectacle. There's a lot of absurdity, but they know that if they dig around, they'll find the occasional nugget.
HOW: Does Emigre reflect design culture, influence it, define it or challenge it (or all or none of the above)?
RvdL: Emigre has often been described as a culture or subculture magazine, suggesting, perhaps, that we reflect or define culture. But this sounds uncomfortable to me. I'm not sure if we fulfill that role. What we do comes very much from within ourselves. The books we publish, the topics we cover in Emigre, the fonts we release, Zuzana's ceramics. These are all things we are personally interested in. What we do is not in any way meant to reflect a cultural or subcultural or underground movement. Maybe that was the function of Emigre in the very early days, when the Macintosh had just been introduced, and there was what you could call a subcultural movement of a few people who were interested in exploring this strange new design tool. But currently we do not try to belong to, or feel specific affinity with, any specific group or approach. So there's no pressure to publish any specific issues dealing with particular subcultural and/or current topics. We simply follow our own personal interests and tastes.
HOW: In the 1980s/'90s, Emigre was the "wild child" of the design-publication industry. What will the Emigre of the 21st century be? What would you like to see it do in the future? What are your plans for the publication in the next 5 to 10 years?
RvdL: We have never made any long-term goals. Currently, our biggest plans are that Princeton Architectural Press will become the co-publisher of Emigre magazine. Princeton, like Emigre, is a small independent company that has carved out its own niche over the years and publishes wonderful books about architecture and design. And they're very supportive of design writing and criticism, which is an area we'll return to with our next issue. The biggest change people will notice is that Emigre magazine will no longer be free, except to some of our very best customers. We're very excited and proud about this collaboration with Princeton. It's a new venture, and we have no idea where it will lead us. But whatever comes of it, I'm sure it will be worth the ride.